help my niece's softball team

My niece, E., is playing on the FTGS Flashes 8U travel team. If you need to renew (or buy) a magazine subscription, please consider doing that through the link below. Thank you!

(I made the banner for them....)

third day church service

Third Day rocked it tonight on the Music Builds Tour @ Verizon Wireless.

Every 3D concert that I have ever attended has been more like a church service than a concert and tonight was no different. They rocked the house with the emphasis where it should be - pointing straight up to Jesus.

They brought old favorites such as Thief and King of Glory - and new favorites-to-be from their latest release Revelation.

For the encore - first they were joined first by Robert Randolf for a song. Then Jars of Clay joined in and they did my favorite arrangement of I'll Fly Away with Mac taking the lead on a verse. For the final song of the evening Switchfoot came to the stage for a collaborative When Love Comes to Town.

I enjoyed the way they built the encore bringing the others back to the stage one at a time.... hey... the "music builds" tour... although I think that has more to do with the Habitat for Humanity benefit part of the tour. :)

If this tour comes anywhere close to your city.... GO! .... you will not be disappointed. Better yet - when you go - take someone with you who needs to hear about Jesus. Hopefully another will be added to the Kingdom.

I'll do another post with more photos later. It's 3am and I just finished downloading pictures while falling asleep in the recliner. My aunt came to town tonight with her entire family - children and grandchildren. We have a date with a few animals at the Indianapolis Zoo tomorrow most likely joined by my parents and nieces. My "job" is to navigate us there and take pictures. Then turn those pictures into a DVD slideshow to keep the kids entertained later. Easy job for me and I'll get to spend time with family.

Music Builds Tour, Fox 59, and IBJ

This morning I was watching Fox59 morning news and the IBJ upcoming events segment. I was hoping to see the Music Builds tour mentioned, but, alas, it was not.

They mentioned FringeFest and said you might see something good or you might see something bad. They mentioned Bob Dylan being somewhere out of town but apparently close to Indy.

Did they mention what I think will be the best Christian concert of the year? Noooooo.... Did i email them and express my disappointment? Most certainly.... and gave them a few nuggets of info to go along with my thoughts - and links for them to get the full story.

For a good start - the tour benefits Habitat for Humanity.

Third Day - a multi-grammy award winning band that Billboard has called one of the best bands. Period. ...and the fact that they recently graced the cover of Billboard Magazine.

Switchfoot - oh, their music is played on MTV... definintely not thought of as a "Christian" channel.

Jars of Clay - just another grammy award winning band.

Robert Randolf - named one of the Top 100 Guitarists of all time by Rolling Stone... a "secular" publication.

Christian artists with accolades from secular media.... and they don't deserve even a passing mention in an upcoming events segment.

So - if you're in Indiana or nearby... make your way to Verizon Wireless in Noblesville on Friday, August 22 for what will be one rockin' show!

(p.s. I'm giving away my extra copy of Third Day's Revelation in the post two entries below this one.)

(p.p.s. stop by and say hello to me at first stage just inside the gate... my friend and singer/songwriter Luke is playing there... you will know me because I'll have a camera or two hanging around my neck since I'm his concert photographer)

Unique's Photo Challenge: Portrait of Two

My entry:

See other pictures from the same day here: http://fotosbycheri.blogspot.com/2008/07/wish-i-had-my-camera-today.html

See other entries at http://www.uniqueexposures.com/challenge/2008/08/16/portrait-of-two/

p.s. I'm giving away 2 CD's .... you will find info on how to enter if you look for the "cd giveaway" post on 8/18/08 in the blog archive in the right column.

cd giveaway

After purchasing Third Day's Revelation CD, I won one. I decided to pay it forward and give it away here. Along with it I'm giving away a copy of Broken Vessels' Unashamed CD.

Here's how to enter:

1. Leave your favorite Third Day song in your comment. If you can't pick just one - you can list 2 or 3. I know I have a hard time narrowing it down to even 3! http://www.thirdday.com/

2. Also in your comment..... Broken Vessels' website is getting a makeover, so in the meantime go to their IndieHeaven site at http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/broken_vessels, listen to the clips and tell me which song you like best. If you like the clips - you will find 4 full-length songs on their myspace page (www.myspace.com/brokenvesselsmusic).

3. One comment per person, please, and this contest is open to U.S. Residents only.

4. Since it's a Third Day giveaway - the contest will end on the 3rd day of September. Please enter by 11:59pm - Hawaii time. (that's 5:59am EST and 2:59am PST ).

Other pertinent information:
I will enter the number of comments/entries in the website http://www.random.org/integers/ which will choose a winner at random.

If you don't have a link to a blog or website to give me a way to contact you, please check back here to see if you're the winner. I will leave the winner info in the comments and in a new post.

lensday: smoke

My entry for lensday: smoke.

This is a bird's eye view of ApologetiX drummer Jimmy "Vegas" Tanner. I did some climbing and leaning to get this one! ....whatever it takes to get the shot.... :)

http://www.lensday.com/

p.s. I'm giving away 2 CD's .... you will find info on how to enter if you look for the "cd giveaway" post in the blog archive in the right column.

photohunt: colorful

This is my entry for photohunt: colorful.

This was Jeremy Camp's band on The Restored Tour. That concert had the best lighting I have ever seen at a concert - a photographer's dream. :)

If you want to see other pictures from the evening:
http://www.fotosbycheri.com/restoredtour/jeremy/index.htm - Jeremy Camp
http://www.fotosbycheri.com/restoredtour/afters/index.htm - The Afters
http://www.fotosbycheri.com/restoredtour/beth/index.htm - Bethany Dillon

photohunt link: http://tnchick.com/archives/1133

p.s. I'm giving away 2 CD's .... you will find info on how to enter if you look for the "cd giveaway" post in the blog archive in the right column.

caleb rowden in greenwood

Caleb Rowden rocked Greenwood Saturday night at the Greenwood Christian Church Family Fun Festival.

It was a great show with songs from his CD and he rocked up some old hymns. The old hymns are great, but I really enjoy it when an artist breaths new life into them.

cd giveaway coming in a few days....

more details to come....

2 CDs will be given away....

tuesday challenge: hill

http://www.tuesdaychallenge.co.uk/

photo sunday: animal

http://wetsox.org/noah/photosunday/

moody monday: sentimental

A local church held a "Honor Our Heroes" celebration the weekend before the 4th of July. They honored veterans, active military, police, fire, and EMS.

This gentleman was helped to and from the front by his two friends you see right behind him. If I'm not mistaken, this is the gentleman who stood earlier in the service when it was stated that there was a Pearl Harbor Survivor in attendance.

Those who defend, and have defended, our freedom and those who keep us safe should be thanked at every opportunity.

photohunt: hanging

He's hanging in mid-air!

This is Justin Glasco and was at the end of a Jeremy Camp concert. I was taking pictures and noticed him standing on his keyboards... I thought this was going to happen - so I immediately changed the subject of my focus.

Photohunt: http://tnchick.com/pshunt

lensday: movement

Lensday challenge at www.lensday.com

moody monday: competition

Posted for Moody Monday photo meme. www.moodymonday.org

This is the complete opposite of how she looked the previous day - all decked out in a blue formal as a junior bridesmaid.

no longer $280

Don called this morning after getting a call from Canon. They went up from $280 to $435. He called an indie repair shop in Atlanta. They're ballparking it at $340. Go indies!!!

So now it has to travel from Canon Aristocratic Hospital back to Lexington then to ATL Mercy General. :) Wish I was earning those airmiles!

So... now it probably won't be here by next weekend.

$280

Don called this morning - the hospital bill for my camera will be $280. He called to find out whether or not to give them the go-ahead to do the shutter transplant.

It's one of those "what choice do I have?" issues. It would cost way more than that for a new camera - and I don't have the $$$$ to do that. It would cost more than that to buy a used one - and I don't have that either. And I have to have a camera to help pay my rent!

It will be good to have my baby back. He overnighted it to them - so when it's ready, they will overnight it back to him. Then UPS will have it here the next day. Hopefully by the end of next week....

where's your favorite vacation spot?

One of mine is California.... especially the Bay Area. I made several trips a year there from 1994 until moving there in 1997. I lived there for 7 years before moving to Indiana. I've been back twice - once to LA and once to the Bay Area... not nearly enough!

Here are some photos from my trip last year. I went for a long weekend to take wedding pictures. I spent more time visiting friends and eating great food than taking pictures - but managed to get a few in the GGNRA. www.nps.gov/goga/. The lighthouse is the Point Bonita Lighthouse. Two person limit on the bridge leading to it.

i get to see this in october!

....and it's a free ticket!

I figure most people recognize it... but if not... San Francisco .... the TransAmerica Building framed by a small part of the Golden Gate Bridge.

My mom wants to go visit her aunt in Redding so she had me redeeming her reward points - when it came time to put the name on the other ticket, my dad decided that they shouldn't both be away for a week because of the business and my nieces.... so she told me to put my name on the other ticket.

I jokingly call her Miss Daisy because she has me drive her if it involves downtown or 465.... so now instead of Driving Miss Daisy, I'll be Flying Miss Daisy -- not literally flying, but guiding through airports. I don't mind - I know if it was a matter of life or death or great importance - she would drive or fly herself.... she did drive downtown once.... and when they lived in Lexington she drove downtown almost every day.

I'll spend a couple of days with the family in Redding - then back down to the Bay Area to see my friends and visit favorite places from when I lived there.... which mostly involves food!

The food list:
Zachary's Pizza http://www.zacharys.com/
Rockridge/College Ave - 1st spot to hit!
Stuffed pizza

In-n-Out http://www.in-n-out.com/
Whichever location we get to first
Simple menu.... burgers. fresh hand-cut fries.
They're experts at those 2 things.

Back 40 BBQ http://www.backforty.us/
Pleasant Hill
Brisket or ribs??? maybe 2 trips!

Burger Road - they don't have a website....
2634 Pleasant Hill Rd, PH
Cheeseburger & Onion Rings w/ranch dressing

Elephant Bar http://www.elephantbar.com/
Concord
Chicken Tenders w/honey mustard & fries
Creme Brulee
(wish they would come to Indy!)

on the wishlist - may not happen:
Vic Stewart's http://www.vicstewarts.com/
Filet Mignon
would love to go.... but this one is a big splurge..... I need to pick up some extra photography jobs!

I will have to really work on my RagamuffinTop Challenge before & after this trip!

edit:
submitted for lensday: city

keith haynie of apologetix

Keith is the bass player for ApologetiX - that Christian parody band.

APX just released their latest CD "Future Tense" - check it out at http://www.apologetix.com/. I just found out from J. via email that I'm in the liner notes for photography.

I didn't get the CD when I saw them on the 11th.... it was the night before my brother's wedding - and the concert where my camera had its attack. So my mind wasn't thinking about CDs.... it was thinking about being a wedding photographer without a camera!

Better to go to the concert and have the shutter fail - than to have it fail at the wedding the next day! So I'm glad I went....

Here's your next few chances to see ApologetiX live - take the kids... they'll love it! Take your unsaved friends... they'll hear about Jesus!

Empire, AL 07.25.08
Austin, TX 07.26.08
Tyler, TX 07.27.08
Lima, OH 08.01.08
West Burlington, IA 08.02.08
Ligonier, IN 08.03.08
Seaside Park , NJ 8.08.08
Beach Haven, NJ 08.09.08
Dinwiddie, VA 08.22.08
Wilmington , NC 08.23.08
Noble, OK 09.05.08
Stamford, TX 09.06.08
Farmer City, IL 09.13.08
Cameron, NC 09.20.08
Billings, MT 09.26.08
Great Falls, MT 09.27.08

another flower

taken with my mom's little point and shoot.

Now I need to work on more wedding pictures.

7/27/08: posted to Thursday Challenge: Yellow (http://www.spunwithtears.com/thursday.html)

ragamuffintop challenge post 12

Link to challenge: http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=5299

Let's just say that this week..... I failed miserably......

What time I wasn't working on normal work stuff... I was working on wedding pictures - finishing up all the editing on the June wedding of a former co-worker and then starting on my brother's wedding pictures.

To show I was doing more than just sitting on my duff..... from the co-worker's wedding:

wish i had my camera today!

I took this today with my mom's little nikon p&s. I was missing my DSLR! I wonder what it would have looked like taken with that one. Maybe the flowers will still be in bloom when it gets out of the hospital.

I did bring my (1st generation) Elan into service today for a couple of concerts. I hadn't used it since I bought my 20D in April of '05. There was still film in it! I also had film that had been in the refrigerator for a few years.... We'll see how it works! I did take pictures of the flowers and bees with it - but it all depends on the film....

Instead of getting prints - I'm going to have the film processed and scanned to CD. I'll post a follow up photo here so we can compare the results.

edited 7/31/08: here are the photos taken with my Elan and film that was at least 4 years old. The biggest difference is the bokeh (out of focus area in the background) and in the scans you can see some emulsion marks or something - probably because the film was so old. I had Roberts scan it directly to CD for me.

pitcher's feet

My niece S. is the pitcher for her All-Star team. I took a few (160) pictures at her game last Sunday evening.

Judging by the wear on the toes of the right shoe - I think it's about time for new ones. She's 10 this week - and wears the same size I do! If I ever decide to take up softball (I hear the laughter from those who know me!) I know where to find shoes.

I think I'll just stick to taking pictures of her and E. playing instead of playing myself. (Now the laughter subsides.....)

being a ring bearer is hard work!

I noticed where this little guy was during the ceremony and couldn't resist taking the photo. He was so tired he had to use the ring pillow for his head.

I won't comment on the placement of his fingers. :)

out of the mouth of babes 1

My niece E. was a flower girl in her favorite Uncle Dave's wedding. She's 6 - and she loved it. She wore one of the Disney princess dresses with a little tiara.

I stopped by my parents' on Monday. Here's the conversation that took place:

E: Are you ever going to get married?

Me: I doubt it.

E: What's that mean?

Me: Probably not.

E: Do you know any single guys?

Me: Yes.

E. Why don't you marry one?

Then a sad look.... not because I'm not getting married.... but because she wants to be a flower girl..... soon!

my camera's in the hospital

so..... thankfully the night before my brother's wedding I decided to go to the ApologetiX concert - even though I didn't really have time. After about 250-300 pictures..... my camera went into shutter failure. click-click-click-click........

Had I not gone to the concert - that failure would have most likely happened DURING the wedding on Saturday.

Earlier in the week I had decided to ask a friend from my photography meetup if he would be willing to come help me for a few hours with the wedding pictures (with pay). He agreed - then Thursday night, he sent an email telling me he hadn't realized earlier that he was going to be in Cincinnati on Saturday. He offered to let me borrow his flash so I could use two for the pictures. I picked it up on Friday.

Then Friday night after my camera started going crazy I called him to see if he had ever had any experience with this particular problem. He offered to loan me his camera for the wedding.

Looking back ... God had it all worked out.... I decided to ask someone to help, he ended up not being able to but he loaned me his camera.

I shipped the camera off to my friend at Murphy's Camera in Lexington yesterday. He will ship it to Canon today. I've bought all of my equipment from him for 20 years, even after I moved from Kentucky to California.... and now that I'm in Indiana. I haven't stepped foot in the store in 8 years or more - UPS does a great job of delivering equipment if needed.

Sure, sometimes I might be able to save a few dollars by going to Sam's, Costco, or sales at other stores.... but if I have a photography or equipment related question - can I call Sam's or Costco???? or even your big-box electronics stores??? No, but people will call camera stores to get expert information then go to other stores to make their purchases. I prefer to buy from the same place where I get my questions answered. If someone doesn't - those stores will go away and we'll have people who don't know the equipment or what it can do selling it to us.

ragamuffintop challenge post 11

Link to challenge: http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=5299

Last week was 3 days walking instead of 4.... but lots of hours walking on those days.... no gps walking, since much was inside.

Thursday:
at least 90 minutes mall-walking in the a/c

Friday:
90 minutes mall-walking in the a/c

Saturday:
10 hours + on my feet with an least half of those taking steps.....finding vantage points for taking pictures at my brother's wedding and reception. before, during, and after. Actually started taking pictures at 9:45 a.m. after only 2 hours of sleep the night before (working on wedding stuff).... stopped taking pictures at midnight. May not have been fast walking.... but my legs would assure you that they walked.... a lot!

I did get to do a little bit of sitting at various points throughout the day.

We had a baptism at church on Sunday - I got to church about 5 or 6 minutes before it..... just in time to take pictures - left a few minutes after. Aaron told me that if I fell asleep during his message that he wouldn't point and call me out... I told him I was going back home to sleep.

Since I'm supposed to post a picture and my walking was without gps.... here's the bride:

ugandan orphans choir, pt 2

The Ugandan Orphans Choir performed songs and dances and played homemade musical instruments for our service on Sunday. They also learned and sang "I Am Free" with our band to close the service. They are full of energy - I was tired just watching them dance!

They also performed on the Circle on Saturday. It was nice to see people take time to stop and enjoy watching the kids - they amassed quite a crowd.

The bottom photo shows the beautiful theatre we rent for Sunday service. The building was built in the late 1800s and (from what I can find) renovated in the early 1990s. The theatre hosts 6-8 productions a year. The current set on stage is from "Swing!" - which is as high energy as the Orphans Choir!

Sometimes the stage set works well for us and we use it - for others, if possible, we drop the curtains. We weren't able to drop the curtain during the production of Elvis songs last year. That set was 3 or 4 bedrooms, a residential hotel desk, and I think a living room and park setting. One bedroom and something else occupied the side stages.

My first Sunday there was during "The Full Monty".... on the outside of the building was the bigger-than-lifesize banner promoting the production. It was rather strange going to church and seeing banners/posters of male strippers with strategically placed hats....

The stage is gorgeous during November/December for the Christmas production. Last year I was tempted to have my parents/brother & his family skip their churches one Sunday and go with me - just so we could take a family picture. Maybe we'll do that this year. It's going to be a Country Christmas - and I'm sure Rodney will outdo himself with the set.

ragamuffintop challenge post 10

Link to challenge: http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=5299

I did better last week with my walking. I only have a gps screenshot for one - the others were downtown and I was carrying camera equipment.

Wednesday:

Distance: 1.7 miles
Time: 33:06
Average: 3.1 miles per hour
(edited to correct distance....goofed in bringing it down from the screen)

Thanks, Callie, for propping up the gps!

Friday:
Distance: 1.6 miles (verified distance on http://www.mapmywalk.com/)
Time: unsure.
We walked 1/3 of it, then stopped by my church gallery/office. Then another 1/3 and stopped at a coffeeshop where a friend was playing for the evening. Then the last 1/3 back to The Art Bank to take fireworks photos.

Saturday, #1:
Distance: .6 miles
Time: 15 minutes carrying 15 pounds of camera gear - and stopping at crosswalks waiting for the walk signal.
Walked from the church/office gallery to Monument Circle. Our church hosted the Ugandan Orphan's Choir - they performed on the circle Saturday afternoon.

Saturday, #2:
Distance: .5 miles
Time: unsure.
Walked from the Circle with pastor's wife. They gave me a ride the last .1 mile - we were trying to get there to help unload bottles of water from the truck. but... since we had to walk so far from the Circle - by the time we got there - the water was unloaded.

Goal remains the same.... walk 4 times for 30 minutes. I don't want to increase my goal until I can regularly attain the one I have.... or I'll be a worse failure!

happy birthday america!

wfmw - 5 ingredients or less

This is my first WFMW post. I'm not a mom (well.... I'm "mom" to 2 furry creatures who meow who think I'm just not as furry as they) but I do appreciate things that make life easier - even if it is just me and the furballs.

First is my Quick & Easy Yummy Peanut Butter Cookies, then a recipe from a friend who passed away a year ago for a Strawberry Pie. He was diabetic, so it's sugar-free.

Q&E Yummy PB cookies:

1 c peanut butter
1 c sugar
1 egg

Preheat oven to 350 degrees.

Combine ingredients. Roll into balls and place on ungreased cookie sheet. Flatten by criss-crossing with a fork. Bake 8-12 minutes depending on the size of your cookies.

When I give people the recipe - they look at me in disbelief and say "no flour??? there has to be flour!" .... but that’s it…. that’s all….. Quick & Easy YUMMY Cookies.

---------

Speedy's Strawberry Pie

1 small pkg vanilla sugar free cook-and-serve pudding
1 small pkg sugar free strawberry gelatin
4 cups sliced fresh strawberries

Mix the pudding with 2 cups water. Microwave according to directions for 6 minutes. Let cool for 3 or 4 minutes.

Mix the gelatin powder into the pudding Slice the strawberries and spread into a pie plate. Pour the pudding, gelatin mixture over the strawberries. (Makes a glaze)

Refrigerate for an hour. Enjoy!!!!!

He didn't say, but I'm assuming you can use a graham cracker or other prebaked crust - but that would add calories and possibly sugar - depending in your crust.

For more 5-ingredient-or-less recipes - check out the links at http://rocksinmydryer.typepad.com/shannon/2008/07/works-for-me-th.html

ragamuffintop challenge post 9

Link to challenge: http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=5299

Well.... last week wasn't the best of weeks......

Goal: Walk 4 times for 30 minutes (hopefully averaging 3 mph)

Results:
Walked one hour one day - didn't use the gps so I don't have a pic to post.

Same goal for this week. I should be able to hit it this week! I'm going downtown Friday evening - parking at a friend's art gallery - walking around downtown - then going back to the gallery and taking fireworks pictures from the roof.

They aren't opening the roof to the public because of insurance, etc. - I'm going to set up the tripod. I won't have the problem I had Sunday night - people would walk in front of the camera - and sometimes - just stop! I was able to get some good shots - but could have gotten more.

fireworks pics

Here are a few pictures from the Honor our Heroes patriotic celebration at Grace AG this evening…… It was a moving service honoring police, fire, EMS, veterans, and active duty personnel - all those who are willing to lose their life to protect us - and our freedoms. There was a Pearl Harbor survivor in attendance.....

Prior to that service there was a concert. Salvador was the headliner (great job!) and John David Webster was the opening act. I arrived during JDW's last song. One of these days I'll post pics of Salvador.

Immediately following the service was fireworks. These are straight out of the camera - I may do some cropping/minor editing later.....when I have time.....

Just realized how late it is…. I guess my head should hit the pillow soon

say what?

Yesterday I went downtown to our church art gallery/office to meet one of our June artists and her friend. They had just arrived and I was propping the door open when this character stopped, leaned against the door frame, and started talking.

He started talking making wax out of outdated beer and making the forms of women, like mannequins, and that they were on playboy/penthouse covers. He made them DOWN in Gary (if you're geographically challenged - Gary is north of Indy, close to Chicago). First he said he left them down in Gary .... then he said he left them at an art gallery at Washington/Sherman Streets (Indy) and was wondering if they were still here or if a gallery could help him find them.....

He went on to tell me that the wax (made out of outdated beer) turns into wood.... but also if you melt it down and put it in a swimming pool with chlorine in it - it turns into that material that you make field jackets out of for schools..... and then when the field jackets wear out you can make something else - but I couldn't understand what he was saying then.

I listened to him for at least 10 minutes and finally convinced him that I didn't know where his mannequins are and he went on his way.

He was wearing a T-shirt from Wheeler Mission - the local homeless shelter. He didn't ask for money or food, I think he just wanted someone to listen to his story. I listened, and didn't laugh while he was telling it. Later, I laughed - not at him, but his implausible story. A few years ago I spent my days at a state psychiatric facility and my nights at a comedy club. I know when it's appropriate to laugh and at what you should be laughing.

ugandan orphans choir

The Ugandan Orphans Choir will be performing in Indianapolis - catch them at the following locations/dates:

Saturday, July 5, 3:00pm - Downtown on the Circle (Market & Meridian Streets)

Sunday, July 6, 10:30am - Indy Metro Church

Indy Metro meets at The American Caberet Theatre at 401 E. Michigan Street.

ragamuffintop challenge post 8

Link to challenge: http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=5299

didn't walk with the gps today - but i did walk for an hour.

i looked at pedometers but decided to check consumer reports first. their "cr best buy" is the freestyle tracer.... now to find one of those in indy.... or order it online....

on golden pond

....if you'll just let go of my hand and I slip my other hand out of auntie's hand - I can swim with Duckie..... c'mon.... please!

pushing up daisies

well.... he's not under the daisies.... but he is under a rosebush on the other side of his grandma's flower bed. The rosebush barely survived the Indiana winter, we're hoping it pulls through. Grandma had to cut some of it away.

He being my beloved, 4-legged, purring baby Bo who was 9-1/2 and had lymphoid leukemia. Callie, Kaz, and I miss him very much. There are times that I'll see something moving out of the corner of my eye - and my first thought is Bo because it was something he would have done.... then I remember that it's Callie or Kaz.